Curse

Innocent · Jul 12, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

http://gwshack.us/ab239

Figure I'd throw it out here, I've been sitting, theory crafting for a bit. I've yet to actually use this in a real GvG. The older version was really bad (waay to defensive) and from there, I re-worked all of the defense/utility synergy. I was wondering if anyone here could give any more suggestions. It's basically a shutdown build, with some small spike potential (not to be relied on, but enough to give the monks something to watch for).

Feedback is greatly welcome

TheOneMephisto · Jul 12, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Something that jumps out at me is why 8+2 illusion on the first mesmer? The breakpoint for distortion is 8, so why push it farther up? Drop it to 7+1 and stick a sup on something else or something.

JR · Jul 12, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innocent

Feedback is greatly welcome

This build is actually very simmilar to something I have been using recently, which is infact a modified version of the build I ran when guesting for SoF. About as standard as balanced builds come, but it's the small tweaks which perfect it.

Looks solid, i'll give you my two cents.

Wild Blow on the Axe Warrior is an odd choice; not entirely common in GvG. Any particular reason you chose this? I don't honestly think that there would be, but I am open to justification. That aside, I would have to take Bull's Strike.

However on the Backbreaker Warrior I would be far more tempted to run something like "To The Limit!" instead of Bull's Strike. Ten adrenaline is a fair amount to build, and TTL will help you build it and allow you to maintain it. Also; if you wanted to strengthen your spike a little you could run Death's Charge on this guy, which greatly helps to reduce how visible a spike is.

Warrior frontline would look something like this:

Shock Axe
Warrior/Elementalist

Strength: 9 (8+1)
Axe Mastery: 16 (12+4)
Tactics: 11 (10+1)
Air Magic: 2

- Shock (Air Magic)
- Bull's Strike (Strength)
- Frenzy (Warrior other)
- Eviscerate [Elite] (Axe Mastery)
- Executioner's Strike (Axe Mastery)
- Sprint (Strength)
- Healing Signet (Tactics)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Brokeback
Warrior/Assassin

Strength: 9 (8+1)
Tactics: 11 (10+1)
Hammer Mastery: 16 (12+4)
Shadow Arts: 2

- Frenzy (Warrior other)
- Backbreaker [Elite] (Hammer Mastery)
- Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Fierce Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Rush (Strength)
- "To The Limit!" (Tactics)
- Death's Charge (Shadow Arts)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Your attributes seem a little out of wack in some cases, although I am a bit pedantic about attribute efficiency and breakpoints. Between the five offensive characters in my version of the build there is a grand total of two attribute points wasted out of the full thousand.

The Mesmers in particular don't seem to have very strong spreads, and I would certainly avoid superior runes on them. My mesmers are built a little differently (Surge on the hard res guy, Gale on the Expell guy), but the attributes should work out the same for yours:

Dominatrix
Mesmer/Monk

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Domination Magic: 14 (12+2)
Inspiration Magic: 9 (8+1)
Illusion Magic: 8 (7+1)

- Energy Surge [Elite] (Domination Magic)
- Energy Burn (Domination Magic)
- Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
- Shatter Enchantment (Domination Magic)
- Diversion (Domination Magic)
- Blackout (Domination Magic)
- Distortion (Illusion Magic)
- Resurrect (Monk other)

Galedom
Mesmer/Elementalist

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Domination Magic: 14 (12+2)
Inspiration Magic: 10 (9+1)
Illusion Magic: 3 (2+1)
Air Magic: 5

- Expel Hexes [Elite] (Mesmer other)
- Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
- Shatter Enchantment (Domination Magic)
- Diversion (Domination Magic)
- Blackout (Domination Magic)
- Gale (Air Magic)
- Distortion (Illusion Magic)
- Resurrection Signet ()

To the E/Mos:
I am going to assume that the Convert and Veil on the E/Mo are counters to SB/RI; in which case no problem. You have shown Blurred as the alternative to Convert, but I would also post what Veil would be subbed out for (if at all) once SBRI is no longer as powerfull. Shard Storm or Ice Prison being obvious good alternatives.

I also think that as a radar range skill you can free up more utility on the main group E/Mo by moving Extinguish to the flag runner E/Mo, in which case a second Heal Party is never a bad idea. I also find Gale incredibly usefull when playing a flag runner. It allows you to interrupt Troll, Heal Sig, or just pin down an opposing player.. I could go on for hours about how much I love Gale.

This would make the flag runner E/Mo look something more like this:

EMo Runner
Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 9 (8+1)
Air Magic: 14 (12+2)
Healing Prayers: 10

- Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)
- Lightning Orb (Air Magic)
- Blinding Flash (Air Magic)
- Gale (Air Magic)
- Windborne Speed (Air Magic)
- Healing Breeze (Healing Prayers)
- Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
- Extinguish (Protection Prayers)

And the main group E/Mo look like this:

Hrydro
Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 9 (8+1)
Water Magic: 14 (12+2)
Healing Prayers: 10

- Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)
- Deep Freeze (Water Magic)
- Shard Storm (Water Magic)
- Ice Spikes (Water Magic)
- Blurred Vision (Water Magic)
- Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
- Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
- Resurrection Signet ()

The only problem with this that I see is the lack of spike contribution from the Ele with the main group, which is why I personally usually have a second Air Ele there with Lightning Orb and Strike. The reduced number of snares isn't great, but I think a stronger spike is more beneficial.

Something like this:

Flashbot
Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 10 (9+1)
Air Magic: 14 (12+2)
Healing Prayers: 9
Protection Prayers: 3

- Lightning Orb (Air Magic)
- Lightning Strike (Air Magic)
- Blinding Flash (Air Magic)
- Gale (Air Magic)
- Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
- Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
- Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)
- Resurrection Signet ()

The Boon Prot is a strong build, but dropping Divine Favour a point to put into Protection seems a bit wacky. The Protection is very much secondary to the Divine, and that character will be more efficient with with 12 base points in Divine.

Boon Prot 2
Monk/Mesmer

Divine Favor: 16 (12+4) / 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9

- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
- Guardian (Protection Prayers)
- Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
- Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
- Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
- Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
- Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
- Divine Boon (Divine Favor)

The Blessed Light again has a slightly strange attribute spread, a more efficient one would be 15/9/9/9. Healing Prayers doesn't really need to be at 10, but you would see benefit from raising Inspiration a point.

B-Light
Monk/Mesmer

Divine Favor: 15 (11+4) / 13 (11+2)
Healing Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Protection Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9

- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
- Blessed Light [Elite] (Divine Favor)
- Spirit Bond (Protection Prayers)
- Gift of Health (Healing Prayers)
- Divine Intervention (Divine Favor)
- Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
- Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
- Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)

These are of course all just suggestions.

fatboyslimerr · Jul 12, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Good build, good suggestions by JR, would just say a few things. Since you already have an e-denial mesmer, e-burn seems a bit out of place on the expeller/shutdown mesmer. I would recommend you try taking blackout in its place then work on trying to coordinate dual blackouts on both enemy monks while warriors and air spiker go for a spike. This should make up for lack of damage by having 2 mesmers (unless you intend the e-surger to participate in spiking too ??). If they have 3 monks (e.g. one smiter) you target the 3rd and proceed to blackout the other two.

Its a tricky tactic but its so effective when done well. Also blackout in invaluble in an offensive split, allowing you overcome a team with more firepower or more healing, by taking out a monk or a caster long enough for one of his team mates to be killed.

If you are planning to sometimes send the warriors off to gank NPCs I would definitely making at least one of them W/A and use some sort of shadow stepping skill, e.g. recall, death's charge (good for spikin) or even aura of displacement on some sort of sword warrior.

Also since you already have an expeller, convert hexes on the watermo is overkill imo. Go for Ward Against Melee (which is better than blurred vision imo) or Foes or possibly more water hexes e.g. shard storm.

Pretty good though

suiraCLAW · Jul 12, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Solid build, most things are suggested by JR- already.

Off-topic: if you want to format "or" skills, this method may give a better view. (copy/paste possible)

Code:

[build prof=E/Mo desc="Snare/Prot" wat=12+1+1 ene=8+1 pro=10][Convert][Ether Prodigy][Ice Spikes][Deep Freeze][Draw Conditions][Extinguish][Veil][Res sig]
[size=10]Or[/size]
[blurred vision][/build]

XxForgexX · Jul 12, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Backbreaker/Fierce Blow? bad JR, very bad!!

Innocent · Jul 12, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I appreciate all the feedback already given. The mesmer's attributes (as well as the BLs) were pretty much us just consulting a chart and going. Really hadn't considered break points. The change JR- suggested to the warriors makes sense to me plenty, as I can see now that Wild Blow woudln't really be very useful.

@fatboyslimerr
Branching off what JR said, and your input later on, I don't think Ward Against Melee would be a good choice unless I respect that whole ele to Earth, but that might be something to consider should I change the element to earth.

Neo-LD · Jul 12, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

GSS has been using a VERY similar build lately. JR would know

My suggestions:

- I agree with JR on his mesmer setup and on the change from hydro to Flashbot. However, for that flashbot, I would change Lightning Strike and Gale to Ward Vs Melee and Ward Vs Foes/Stability (pick). Lightning Strike is only useful in a spike and only contributes small damage. Gale is useful but its exhaustion conflicts with Prodigy. Without those wards your defense is dangerously thin.

- I find Backbreaker to be unreliable. It takes a long time to build up, and often it will all get wasted when your target blocks or evades it, or you get blacked out. Devastating is a very good substitute. Bar is

Devastating
Crushing
Irresistable
Hammer Bash
Heal Sig
Frenzy
Rush
Res Sig

This is the hammer that both emt and iB used in g1 of their series. It has some quirky problems like hammer bash + rush, but overall its very effective at leading the spike. The second knockdown from Hammer Bash allows you to extend the spike longer, which, while it may seem pointless, can score kills that you normally wouldnt get because their monks are shutdown fairly well by your mesmers.

- JR's axe is excellent but I prefer a sword. Final Thrust better compliments the long + devastatingly powerful style of the 2 KD spike. However, if you stay with Backbreaker, keep the axe.

Slit Wrists · Jul 14, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

JR, a hammer warrior without irrestible blow is not a hammer warrior.

I would drop wild blow for shields up on the axe warrior

JR · Jul 14, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slit Wrists

JR, a hammer warrior without irrestible blow is not a hammer warrior.

I would drop wild blow for shields up on the axe warrior

In a pure adren spike build Irresistible does not contribute hugely. It is largely a pressure skill due to it's spammability.